Bin Laden is still alive and clearly acting as head of Al Qaeda, says CSIS Translator at Mohamed Harkat Bail Hearing. By YayaCanada  OTTAWA - Thurs. November 3,
2005:
Continuation of Cross Exam of "P.G.", a Senior Analyst with CSIS, by
defence counsel, Paul Copeland, at Mohamed Harkat bail hearing in
Supreme Court.Judge Lemieux began today's session by reporting that he had reviewed the materials written by the CSIS witness, P.G., which defence counsel, Paul Copeland, had asked to have entered into evidence so that it could be cross examined to determine the biases of the witness, but to which proposal CSIS had objected on the grounds that it would be "injurious to national security". Mr. Copeland asked that the witness not be present for this discussion, and Judge Lemieux directed the witness to leave the court room. The Judge then asked CSIS counsel why they couldn't just hand the materials in confidence to Mr. Copeland, to which counsel responded that to reveal the reason would in itself be injurious to national security. Is top secret clearance really needed, asked the Judge. CSIS is not relying on these materials; they were filed solely at the request of defence. Mr. Copeland said, "If it's just a situation of they say it's top secret and therefore can't release it" that does not mean releasing the material is potentially injurious; I myself have often seen innocuous material classified as top secret. Whether or not CSIS was relying on the materials to make their case, defence needs the materials available to cross examine the witness for possible biases. The declaration of the witness that terror suspects are "a threat for ever and ever" is a very important issue. Maybe CSIS is relying on other reports that are not documented? The Judge announced that he was prepared to make a ruling, and asked for the witness to be returned, whereupon the Judge said that "these studies are not relevant for any purpose before me today. There is disclosure on public record which is a factor in determining whether it is relevant for cross-examination." The Judge went on to state three reasons for his decision: 1. In large part the materials are general in nature - they do not directly or indirectly concern Mr. Harkat, and are "clearly outside any realm of relevance". They deal "tangentially with matters of Islam" and Islamic structure within Canada. 2. The materials are repetitious and duplicated - there are 4 or 5 studies on Al Qaeda on which the witness has publicly testified. 3. The witness had already touched on and elaborated on much of the rest of the material. Judge Lemieux finished by saying, "If the matter had not been decided on relevance, I would have had to examine the national security issue. The material is to be returned to CSIS." To which defence counsel responded, "Counsel should be able to determine relevance but national security interferes with that." Counsel was assured by the Judge that serious thought had been given and that there was no prejudice, but that he takes "to heart" defence counsel's concerns. Mr. Copeland then resumed his cross exam of P.G. by continuing to test his knowledge of the history of Jihad. Referring to Sheikh Abdullah Azzam, who became one of the first Arabs to join the Afghan Jihad against the Soviet forces, who invaded Afghanistan in 1979, he asked the witness: Do you know when he was born? The answer: No. Are you familiar with his education [Shariah law]? Answer: Theology - Islamic Tenets. Are you aware he received a doctorate in Cairo [Islamic Jurisprudence]? Answer: I have no reason to doubt it. Are you aware that he would not use terrorism against civilians? Answer: Not aware of that. Do you know why he was assassinated? Answer: That's not been discovered. It was a car bombing. [On 24 November 1989 three bombs planted along the route that Abdullah Azzam regularly traveled to the mosque detonated as he passed. The Sheikh was killed, along with two of his sons.] Do you have knowledge of bombings of American embassies? Answer: Some knowledge. Are you familiar with [Mahmoud] Jaballah, an Al Qaeda suspect? Answer: I don't know the individual. Do you get some of your information from the Internet? Answer: Yes I do. Mr. Copeland produced a document and asked: Are you aware of an individual who allegedly stole money from Bin Laden? Do you know how he did that? [Jamal Ahmad al-Fadl] Answer: No. Mr. Copeland said rather pointedly, "Since we have no rules of evidence, I would ask that this document be filed." and the Judge accepted it as evidence. To the witness Copeland said, "You appear to have excellent memory." The witness preened visibily. Have you read the Human Rights Watch Hidden Detainees Report of October 2004 with reference to Abu Zubaydah? Answer: I am aware generally of reports in that regard. You have not read this report? Answer: No. Are you familiar with the term "extraordinary rendition"? Answer: Yes. As a Senior Analyst for CSIS is it important to know what was being done with Al Qaeda detainees in various parts of the world? Answer: We always use the best and most corroborative information. Would you take into account the treatment of the detainee with relation to reliability of information obtained from them? Is it important to know if the subject has been tortured? Answer: Yes. Do you know that Abu Zubaydah's name appears in relation to Mohamed Harkat? Answer: Yes I do. Where did you get your information? Answer: From the classified materials [kept from defence counsel due to "national security"]. Did you come across a three line statement about Zubaydah in relation to Harkat? Answer: "I am aware of having perused information with respect to Zubaydah as it relates to this case" but can't recall a specific statement. Copeland read from correspondence from CSIS counsel Mr. Matheson of July 2004, a summary of a statement issued by the court: that CSIS was relying on information from Zubaydah, had made assumptions not supported by reliable evidence, and that a "foreign agency" had advised that Zubaydah had identified Harkart as operating a guest house in Peshawar. Does the Service know where Zubaydah is? Answer: I can't answer that. [national security] As a Senior Analyst, and not speaking for CSIS, do you know where Zubaydah is? Answer: I have no idea. Do you think it is important for the Service to know where and how people are held whose information they rely upon? Answer: That's not relevant; it's only important to know how the information was obtained. Not speaking for CSIS - do you know where or under what conditions Zubaydah is being held? Answer: I don't know. Can I suggest that the Service doesn't care in the least? Answer: I would say that's not a true statement. What efforts are made to find out? Answer: I'm not aware of efforts made or not made. Does the service have someone responsible for gathering that information? Answer: I do not know. Mr. Copeland produced a Washington Post article that had been reproduced in the Globe and Mail, and read: The White House refused to confirm or deny that the CIA operates secret prisons all around the world. Are you familiar with that article? Answer: I have a copy of the original article, but have had no chance to read it. But are you aware the CIA is operating secret prisons? Answer: I am aware of the Washington Post article. Were you previously aware of it? Answer: This is not the first article I've seen about that. Do you have an opinion on the accuracy of the story that the US has a fleet of planes to move prisoners around the world? Answer: I've not followed up on that. I have no knowledge if that was done; I would not necessarily be told. How would you decide when writing reports as to the reliability if you don't know about the detainees? Answer: We use information we have determined is correct. Are you aware of a report from SIRC which stated that CSIS was giving them information that was not correct? Answer: I recall the basics of a news report, but not the details. What's the basic information? Answer: Apparently SIRC filed a report that CSIS is not in a position to guarantee their information is correct. Is this because the Service doesn't make inquiries? Answer: I have no knowledge of that. Part III - Conclusion of cross exam - November 3rd Summations - November 4th Main Page - "Abolish the Security Certificate" Comment: From Matthew Behrens of TASC - Re Part I: Thanks for this great update One minor note to correct though--Khadr was jailed in Pakistan (released through the help of Chretien), and although he was an Egyptian by birth, he was only a kid when Nasser was killed. From Alma Norman, Ottawa Raging Grannies What does BL's living or not have to do with Moe's bail?????? YYC: Because CSIS believes it does, so there! All Al Qaeda affilliates are enamored of him even if they don't directly work under his direction. From Mike H. I see they are still trying to push the Bin Laden-Al Qaeda myth. It is so sick. My heart goes out to your friend Mr. Harkat. This is just another reason the "Big Lie" of 9/11 must be exposed. Keep up the good work. I am sure Mr. Harkat appreciates your friendship, help and love. Don't worry, one way or another we will win this thing. Related: SundayHerald: One victim's story “The CIA worked on people, including me, day and night,” he says. “Plenty lost their minds. I could hear people knocking their heads against the walls and the doors, screaming their heads off.” Human Rights Watch Report October 2004 - The United States’ “Disappeared” The CIA’s Long-Term “Ghost Detainees” yayacanada.com Main Page - "Abolish the Security Certificate" |